42 - Beyond the Latch: How Tongue Ties Shape Airway, Sleep, and Development (Guest: Brittany Hageman)

In this episode of Doula Talk: Postpartum, Babies, and the Battle for Sleep, Deb sits down with returning guest Brittany Hageman, a myofunctional speech therapist specializing in oral facial development, infant feeding, and airway health.

Most parents hear about tongue ties when breastfeeding isn’t going well — but the impact goes far beyond latch. Brittany and Deb unpack how tongue ties can shape a child’s jaw and palate development, airway space, facial symmetry, speech clarity, and even long-term sleep and breathing patterns. From the baby stage through adulthood, these small restrictions can make a surprisingly big difference.

You’ll hear:

• The red flags every parent should know about tongue ties and airway concerns
• How ties can influence jaw growth, palate shape, and facial development
• Why airway health is directly linked to sleep, focus, and even behavior in children
• Practical steps you can take right now to support your child’s airway and oral development
• The role of myofunctional therapy, craniosacral therapy, and collaboration with specialists in creating lasting change

And because she knows how overwhelming this can feel, Brittany has created a PDF checklist of symptoms you can download to help spot potential concerns early and bring to your provider.

💡 Resources & Links:

• Download Brittany’s free Airway & Tongue Tie Symptom Checklist
• Connect with Brittany for in-person or virtual myofunctional therapy if you’re in Washington or California
• Learn more about Deb’s support for families: DoulaDeb.com
• Oral Development Tools Mentioned in this Episode:
  • EZPZ Developmental Cup Set — helps little ones practice open cup and straw drinking skills that support oral development.
  • NinniCo Pacifiers — designed to mimic the breast and support a healthier latch. Use this link for Doula Deb’s affiliate discount.
  • TalkTools Oral Motor Tools — fun, effective tools created by speech therapists to strengthen oral muscles and promote chewing, swallowing, and tongue mobility.
  • MyoMunchee — a simple, chew-based tool that supports jaw strength, tongue posture, and nasal breathing. Available in versions for babies, kids, and adults.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome & Episode Introduction
• 2:20 Meet Brittany: Myofunctional Speech Therapy and Airway Focus
• 5:00 What Is a Tongue Tie? Red Flags Every Parent Should Know
• 9:00 How Tongue Ties Affect Jaw, Palate, and Airway Development
• 14:30 Facial Growth, Symmetry, and Breathing Challenges
• 19:00 Sleep, Snoring, and the Airway Connection
• 23:00 `Chewing, Swallowing, and Feeding Struggles Linked to Ties
• 28:00 Speech Development and Tongue Tie Impacts
• 33:00 Brittany’s Personal Story: Adult Tongue Tie Release
• 37:00 Early Signs of Airway Issues in Babies and Kids
• 42:00 Practical Steps for Parents: Nasal Breathing, Chewing, and Oral Exercises
• 46:30 Tools to Support Development: TalkTools, MyoMunchee, EZPZ Cups & Ninni Pacifiers
• 50:00 Finding the Right Provider & Therapy Options
• 52:40 Closing Thoughts, Key Takeaways & Checklist Resource

Transcript

Deb (00:55)
Hi. How are you? Good. How are you? Good. Welcome back to Doula Talk

You, Brittany, have been here once before when we talked all about tongue ties and myofunctional speech therapy. But today we're going do a little bit further on airway and structural development around the tongue tie. So before we start, I want you to tell us a quick review of who you are, your background, and what you do as a speech therapist. Sure. So I'm Brittany Hagman.

My business is coastal myofunctional and speech therapy. I am a speech therapist. I specialize in oral facial myofunctional therapy and infant cranial sacral therapy as well. That means I just focus on how the tongue, lips and facial muscles work and function together, not just for speech, but for breathing, swallowing and oral development, as well as feeding for infants.

work with infants, children and adults to correct any negative impacts that the tongue tie restrictions or other restricted tissues may cause. I teach how to encourage nasal breathing, how to make the tongue muscles move in the correct direction for swallowing. And then I am huge on collaboration with providers and educating parents.

Wonderful. So why don't we just start with like a quick overview of what tongue tie actually is and what those like red flags would be like, hey, there might be a tongue tie here. Sure. So a tongue tie or is when the tissue under the tongue is really tight and short. It's restricting movement and usually it will restrict function. And so that's when it's a restricted tongue tie. So we all have a frenulum, a string under our tongue.

And some are different places. And so about seven to 10 weeks gestation, that tissue is supposed to recede back. But for some reason in, they think there could be a genetic link, but the tissue doesn't actually recede. So it remains there and it pulls down and causes a lot of tension under the tongue. You also have,

the upper lip and you have a one on the lower lip. And then you have buccal freena, which connects from the cheek to your gums on both sides. So when that is tight, then other things like feeding and ⁓ swallowing and the function of the jaw and the mouth opening wide enough, all of those things can be impacted if they're too short or tight.

And you said feeding, not just breastfeeding, also bottle feeding and also solids Exactly. Yep. You'll see it with all stages. Even with adults, you'll see if there's a tongue thrust or you'll see that the tongue tie could cause open mouth breathing, sleep apnea. It affects the oral health and the microbiome of the oral cavity.

if you guys want more information on tongue ties in general, I have three other podcasts to go check out. there's episode 23, which is Brittany's episode. We have episode 19. And then also episode 20. And they all are around that issue of tongue ties and different therapies and different ways to navigate if your baby has a tongue tie.

Most parents hear about tongue ties when breastfeeding is not going well and there happens to be a restriction. But we want to go a little deeper today. So we want to talk about how it impacts airway and oral development as they grow up. So do you want to talk about how that impacts? Yes. Yeah, definitely. So a tongue tie impacts the oral facial development because the tie restricts the tongue's range of motion.

and it prevents the tongue from resting on the palate or the roof of the mouth. that tongue is actually a key driver of oral facial development for the palate, for the jaw, the upper jaw, lower jaw, and that restriction can actually alter growth patterns. So as far as the hard palate, right, the hard part of the roof of the mouth, normal development, the tongue should rest against the palate.

promoting a broad U-shaped palate and it's more flat. With a tongue tie, the tongue stays low in the mouth leading to a high narrow palate. This reduces nasal airway space. It can contribute to mouth breathing, dental crowding, concerns. Basically the palate or the roof of the mouth is the floor of the nasal cavity. And so if that palate

is pushed up or remains to grow and is narrow and high, a high vaulted palate, then that can go into that air space in the nasal cavity. Now sometimes, a palate shape can change based off of pacifiers, based off of certain bottles. Thumb sucking. Thumb sucking, yes. And all of those can be also contributing factor to a high palate as well. Now for the mandible, which is the lower jaw,

Normal development would be that ⁓ proper tongue function supports the forward and downward growth of that jaw. With the tongue tie, that limited mobility can cause it to recede. So you'll see that recessed chin or the jaw will recess. And then ⁓ it can also actually be retrudded And so you'll see a smaller oral cavity. ⁓ Some people might ...

say it looks like they have a big tongue, but really their jaw is just upper and lower jaw. It's just not developing properly. And the widening is what I understand also. Yes. And so in that jaw alignment and so later in life you'll see not only the orthodontic, ⁓ the bite concerns and the different malocclusions, but you'll see TMJ issues, inflammation of that joint. ⁓

or TMD, which is more of a disorder. And then you'll develop the oral facial myelogical disorders or OMDs. And that is like a narrow face. Yes. And with like the jaw receding. Yes. Yep. And then the upper jaw, the maxilla, normal development is tongue pressure actually up on the palate helps expand and guide proper growth.

And then with the tie, without that tongue pressure, right? So the tongue is down, the tongue is not putting pressure. And so up there, so the maxilla or the upper jaw, ⁓ it may grow narrow and high, restricting that space for when the teeth come in. So you'll see cross bites or open bites or that's when you'll see the malocclusions.

The facial profile, a normal facial profile would be balanced, oral facial muscle tone, and you'll see more symmetry. So the eyes, the nose, everything is symmetrical. The lips, even when the smile, when you see the baby smile or child smile, the lips will be symmetrical. But sometimes with a tie, you'll see asymmetry. So one side goes up and one side kind of goes down a little bit.

⁓ And with a tie in chronic mouth breathing or open mouth posture, the dysfunction of the muscles, that can cause that long face syndrome or profile. It can cause a flat mid-face or underdeveloped cheekbones, that recessed chin, and then also the child will look tired. there'll be ⁓ allergic shiners or ⁓ dark circles under the eyes.

So that or that forward head posture, you'll see that as well. And then the nasal cavity. So with a normal nasal cavity, there's a broad palate ⁓ that supports a wider ⁓ profile of the nasal passages. So more air space. And that will promote the nasal breathing, which can increase the oxygen to the brain. And then with that tongue up on the palate,

It will help calm ⁓ and stimulate the vagus nerve, which is very important for rest and digest for us and our functions. And then also with a tie, you'll see a high narrow palate compressing the nasal cavity, which then could cause nasal congestion. It might sound like just really congested, even though there's nothing there.

It can cause the mouth breathing and then enlarged tonsils possibly. Adnoids And noise, yep. And just the whole structure of the airway changes. It becomes more of a narrow airway, the airspace. And you'll eventually see sleep disorder breathing. So that's your snoring and apnea later in life, even in children. Yeah. As far as the muscles of mastication and swallowing. So mastication is chewing.

normal development of those muscles, the muscles are balanced and both sides are balanced. So chewing is bilateral. So on both sides, you'll see if one, if someone is chewing only on the right side, that the masseter muscle will be overdeveloped, but the other side will be more weak. Which causes the bones to create bigger and thicker on one side or the other. Yes. And you'll see that

even more of asymmetry on that side as well. And then also the tie, sometimes kids can't pick the food up on that side and move it to the other side to chew. And so you'll see more scattered food and then that will cause cavities or just an imbalance of clearing that bolus or residue of the food.

so normal use, the tongue and lips support efficient chewing and swallowing. And with a tie what happens is they overuse the lips, the jaw and the cheeks. They compensate. So even with babies, you'll see that choppy jaw, jaw moving, and compensating. the breast rather than using the tongue to compress the breast. Exactly. And they can't separate the tongue movement from the jaw.

So right, because it's so tight down and restricted. Yeah. It doesn't feel good. And then you'll see those lip blisters because they're hanging on for too long. Yes. compensating and just using their lips because that they can't have a way to keep that nipple in there deep. Exactly. So there could be not only the restriction, but the tongue weakness in the back as well that can impact things. So

With an older child learning to feed or eat, what you'll see too is you'll see more of a forward anterior swallowing pattern or tongue thrust because that tongue can only go forward. It can't go up and back in a nice rhythmic wave-like motion, right? And it can't, there's no lingual mandibular differentiation, which means the tongue can't move separate from the jaw. So you'll see that.

as well. You'll see a chompy ⁓ or you'll see kind of vertical chewing and nibbling versus that rotary chewing where the... And the only time the jaw really should move is like the swallow. Yeah. And like when you're chewing hard vegetables or things that need that pressure because our jaw is so strong, it just can take so much pressure. ⁓ so with that

Proper chewing and coordination ⁓ it actually can develop Your the jaw and that's all about the airway. Yeah, what the position of your jaw? And then also when speech comes then you'll see normal development You'll be able to make all those speech sounds and with tongue ties, you know, they can make Compensations to say the speech sounds and errors. So like the T the D the L the S

the Z, the N, the R, the palatal sound, so SH. And all of those sounds can be distorted possibly. There could be a frontal lisp or a lateral lisp, and that distortion or error, or articulation error can be corrected with compensatory strategies, but you're gonna have to recruit all the other muscles to So working extra hard. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's on a lot of training.

with the speech therapist. And sometimes can they, can some kids not ever get there as adults because of how restricted they are? Yes, they can, they can train themselves to make a clear sound, but it does, it takes a lot of training, a lot of work. Sometimes if the tie is severe enough in my

opinion, you'll hear mixed reviews because it is a political topic. literally half of the SLPs will say, time tie releases help with articulation clarity and half of them will say no. So ⁓ I'm on that. I think it's also dependent on personal where they're at and if it could help or not. either way it's going to be work. Whether you get restriction done, know, taking care of or not.

Exactly. And if you have that kind of restriction to where, you know, all the other elements are impacted, I just feel like, you know, why not, why not address that root cause? Why not address that small little tissue that can have a huge impact? Yeah. ⁓ is what I think. But, know, cause it's not just cosmetic. Like it really, but it can help with cosmetics. And then also pain. Like there's so much pain.

as an adult gives results of not taking care of exactly. And ⁓ I think your listeners maybe could refer to my other story, but I had my tongue tie released as an adult last year. And I will tell you, yeah, it felt like a couple of canker sores were under my tongue for like two or three days. And then after that, the stretches were not that bad. It was way worth it because my jaw pain went away and I can...

chew hard vegetables now. mean like my pelvic you've never knew, right? Yeah, like the pelvic floor is better. It's all connected. Right. So, you know, early detection matters. Yeah. And identifying it matters because then if left untreated, it can cause mouth breathing, poor palate development, know, sleep apnea later in life. Yeah. The whole oral facial structure can change if you don't address these things. Yeah.

So what would be some of those early signs, say their baby was diagnosed and they have a tongue tie, and ⁓ what would be the early signs to look for? We'll just start with the tongue tie just really quickly and then move on to if they're actually having airway issues or how to determine is this an airway issue or not. Yeah, so as far as the tongue tie, so if you notice the red flags,

and I'll give you a checklist that has all of the red flags for tongue ties. And so then you can kind of take a look at that. But if your child has a suspected tongue tie or lip tie or buckle ties and it is impacting the function and the airway, then this is what you can look for. So sleep, look for snoring, ⁓ open mouth breathing.

⁓ And that can be during the day or night. For babies, it would be that open mouth posture. Even if they're still breathing through their nose, that tongue is not maintaining pressure on their palate. So a lot of parents, if they go and press under their chin and hold, push it up, push the tongue up and hold, that jaw, lower jaw will drop down. And so that's kind of a sign. Also, restless sleep.

⁓ For older kids, you'll see also grinding or clenching. ⁓ There's also maybe if the child wakes up and doesn't feel rested, maybe some, there is a correlation with ADHD or sensory processing disorder. You might see that. And then bedwetting past age five, that is also something to look for.

Which is interesting because the tongue is connected to the pelvic floor through fascia. And you can see that. Yeah. And if they're not getting that deep sleep, your kidneys don't shut off. Exactly. Totally. They just keep going. Yeah. The dark circles, like I mentioned, under the eyes, that long elongated face.

Recessed chin, sleeping in odd positions. So head tilted back, you'll see neck extended to the side. They're trying to get airway. And I always say that airway trumps everything. Because even though I am a myofunctional therapist, I do myofunctional therapy. There's certain exercises in the myomanual that I go through, phases one through three with kids, that they can't do because they're airway.

So I always say airway trumps everything. And so we have to address airway and the root cause in order to change. Yeah, forward. Even with nursing or bottle feeding, you know, like a baby will get a cold. They are normal and they don't have tongue tie or anything, but they'll get a cold and their nose is stuffy. They will not eat very well. They'll just like suck,

So it's so important that their nasal passage is like actually clear and yeah, so if it's already compromised with tongue tie I mean, it's tough. It is and it you know, I always say if you do it early before The jaw is done growing and developing then you can avoid later on Palo Alto expansion You can avoid all the braces and all the orthodontic. Yeah, I tell you what

I mean, lots of money poured into this little Yes. And I do feel like, you know, some of the expansion, you have to do so much craniosacral therapy to even get relief and all that balanced. And I feel like if you can address ties early on and or if there's no tie or if the tie is functional, if you can address the function of the tongue and the posture and the habits.

and address that airway when they're young, then you can avoid that. The pelvic expansion and all of that. if you can avoid it, please do. It's just a longer process. so with babies specifically, their palate can change so fast. Even just doing some of the oral motor exercises that I do with babies. And then the parents can do it at home.

can really impact the way that that palate grows and spreads and it can change. Babies, palates, and their whole cranial bones, it changes so fast. So you can see a huge difference if you do this early on. Address the airway, address the oral motor and the function of the tongue and the muscles so that later on you don't have to address it. That's amazing. Yeah.

And mean, later on too, you'll see the crowded teeth because of that narrow and high palate. You'll see evidence based off of what do the teeth look like. Right. So yeah. And then the crowding on the bottom. I mean, I had that growing up is that they did the braces and then the crowding just kept coming back because. Right. Yeah. Tori. Was that? the tori? Tori. Yes. part of it?

That is because of the grinding and clenching, the clenching specifically. And I definitely have that. ⁓ So I wish I had my tongue tied released as a baby. It makes dental work really challenging because anytime you put that separator like mouth opener, it's like so painful. It is. Yeah. I mean, I just can't even imagine. you know, teaching because even if you get the tie release, let's say,

and the tongue has that full range of motion, but it's not functioning and it's not staying up on the palate, you can still have some of these issues. So that's why oral motor therapy and myofunctional therapy is so important to do in conjunction with a tie release because you have to teach that tongue to rest against the roof of the mouth in order to shape the palate and shape the face really and guide that jaw growth and development. ⁓ it can, you know, so that will help

Everything so you know crowded teeth forward jaw positioning narrow palate all of that mouth breathing It all can impact the airway and the how it develops. Mm-hmm Yeah, and so like people who maybe are on the fence of getting their restriction taken care of whether it's a buccal tie or tongue lip It sounds like either way doing myofunctional therapy

and getting releases and you know, if the muscles of craniosacral therapy could all lead to, maybe you don't need to do the restriction like surgery. Yeah, it depends. depending. I've had that happen with a few of our shared clients. Yes. Yeah. And that one, baby, I felt like the fascia was so, so tight under the tongue by just me releasing the fascia under the tongue gave enough function and mobility.

that and then the exercises to help train that tongue, there was enough relief with feeding, nursing and ⁓ sleeping. So yeah, it just depends on the type of tie. It depends on if it's functional or not. And there are things that you can do to kind of rule it out. And so if you do the body work, if you do the craniosacral therapy, if you do the oral motor therapy and there's still issues, then that structural

release of will make a difference. That's the barrier that yeah. you, it just really depends. Every case is so different in every baby. But it's, a nice half step. You know what I mean? like, I'm helping them feed and breathe and all these things. And then it's, you know, all of that work. You still need to do that before a release anyway. I always say like, just go get the body work and just see if that's all they need. Sometimes that's it.

Yeah. And then, you know, because it's all about the function. You know, you look at the function and how the tongue and lips and jaw functioning and, you know, the babies have been practicing in utero the whole time. And if they have the wrong pattern, then they're practicing that pattern the whole time. yeah. So thinking of the length of therapy of like, okay, my baby's four weeks now. This is probably not going to happen. Well, they've had

eight months or more in utero, sucking on all kinds of things, practicing, breathing, all the stuff that you have to now kind of teach them in a different way. Totally. And it takes time. And some babies you'll notice a huge difference after doing the oral motor therapy after a week or two. And then other babies it might take

Deb (26:15)
It depends.

Deb (26:43)
I'm to clear my nasal cavity. All right. Awesome. So yeah, some ⁓ other signs to look for would be not just the difficulty with breastfeeding or latch or the feeding, maybe texture. They have a hard time with managing textures and breathing at the same time. So even that coordination.

toddlers or kids or ⁓ you know infants just the coordination of the suck swallow breathe and then also you'll you'll hear that snoring noisy sleep there could be frequent colds or sinus issues difficulties chewing and swallowing solids open mouth posture or low tongue resting posture as well because the tongue should be where? Up on the palate

on the roof of the mouth. if it's low resting, that's what is going to change the palate and change the whole, the jaw development. So, and I also feel like chewing is so important and developing the skills of chewing. I almost feel like in our culture, it's kind of a lost art. It really is. Our food is so much now. Or like pouches. Yes. Yes.

And it's so convenient, however, I would encourage you to, if you want to do those, great, but also add in some hard vegetables. Get that chewing because the jaw needs the pressure to develop. yeah. To get that strong bone. Exactly. you know, even you can get those little feeding pouches. If you're afraid of choking, you can get those little feeding pouches that have the net and put in hard carrots, put in hard

just different textures and then, you know, and if you do baby lead weeding, you can do, you know, I love mango pits because they can just gnaw, gnaw, gnaw. Yeah, some of those peaches, like the one with the big pit so they can't swallow it. but yeah, can just show me. Yeah, totally. one of my favorite things to do with my son. Another great tool you should look up is, you know, the talk tools.

has amazing tools on there and it's developed by a speech therapist. And I love them because they're silicone, you can throw them in the dishwasher, but babies can hold them, they can chew and just try to guide your child to bilateral chewing. So if they're doing 10 chews on one side, you can direct their hand and do 10 chews on the other side. But they have little triangles that you start with and then they have a yellow T.

that they can hold on to. So all of those are great if you're, you know, as an additional option. And then also there is a product called the MyoMunchy. And the MyoMunchy actually puts you in a class one occlusion and you work on rhythmic slow chewing. What is a class one occlusion? Yeah. So just like how your jaw should be aligned. Okay. And then it

you work on nasal breathing with your tongue up while you're slowly chewing. So they do make one for babies. You have to get it through practitioner, but the they'd make some for toddlers, for kids, for teenagers, and even adults. So like if you're sitting there doing computer work, you could be working on nasal breathing, building those muscles. And so that is a really great.

I would say it's a tool. It's not a replacement for therapy, but it's a great tool to come work in between Yes. Yes, exactly. Okay

Okay. ⁓

Yeah.

Come on.

to support areas they grow but I think you did.

Should I ask it anyways? Which one? Beyond addressing tongue ties, what are some ways that they can support healthy airway? Yeah, eight. Yeah, eight? Yeah, that's a good one. So beyond addressing tongue ties or getting the restriction released, what are some other ways that parents could support a healthy airway and oral development as they grow? Yes, I would just encourage...

parents to promote nasal breathing even from infancy. So I would say when you are going in, check on your little one when they're sleeping, go in and see the position of their tongue. So if the tongue, so sometimes babies might have lip closure, but if you kind of open a little bit and lower the jaw, you'll be like, ⁓ the tongue's actually down.

even though the lips are closed. So what you do is you push up under the chin and just kind of press up and hold. Like on the bony part or the soft part? The soft part. Yes. Under, cause the tongue muscles go all the way down under your chin. And so you push on the soft part and hold for like five seconds. And then if baby drops the jaw, then do it again. And I mean, I had to do it like five times in a row with my son until he

in his sleep, maintain that tongue up posture. Super cool. It takes time to train, but you can actually do that and giving that input can change the position. And now I think I go in there and check and I would say 90 % of the time the tongue is up now with my kids at sleep and sleep. So I do think it is possible to change that pattern. And then doing the oral motor exercises to encourage like

There's a palatal sweep exercise that you encourage that back part of the tongue to go up to the palate. Offer foods that promote chewing and jaw strength, increasing that jaw strength. And avoid extended use of bottles, sippy cups, and pacifiers beyond toddler years. That's in like 15 months, 18 months? Yeah.

Twelve months is like when I would say, but I would say also look for the teeth. So you want to eliminate the pacifier when the teeth come in. then, but by one, you know, is my recommendation. If you haven't done it already, kind of start backing off. Yes. And so some of my, one of my favorite pacifiers is the ninny. ⁓ And I actually like the ninny because you can train babies

how to use it. if at first your baby doesn't know how to do it, there's actually videos online that you can find on Nini's website that shows you how to use it and how to train them. Super cool. I love that one. What do you love about it? I like that it feels soft like a nipple and baby can draw it in and up kind of like the nipple. You can see the tongue and what the tongue is doing because it's

clear silicone ⁓ material. And then also it's so soft that it's not pressing up on that palette, further pushing that palette up higher. So it's a higher vaulted narrow palette. Okay. Cause that is a concern with pacifiers. Exactly. Yeah. Yep. I mean, like I always show, ⁓ I have a pacifier elimination program and I, I use Play-Doh and I show like, this is usually with like a toddler, a four year old.

how what the pacifier does with Play-Doh. know, if you just push it up, you'll have that indent. I call it a bubble palette. Yeah. Yeah. Because you'll see like that little round instead of the flat U shape, it'll be like a little, it looks like a bubble. And that's where that pacifiers, because if you think about it, the tongue is pushing that up on the palette. Because when they're sucking, it's creating the vacuum and then it's pushing up. All that pressure. Yeah.

of that hard structure in there. Whereas a very soft nipple on a pacifier won't push up on there and cause the bones to develop improperly. Okay. And then I would say for sippy cups, this is a big one. This is a big one. This is controversial. man, here's drop it. Those hard sippy cups with the hard tops, mean...

It looks like a nipple, but it's hard. they actually cause so many issues with development and you'll see like maybe even an open bite when they can't close their teeth all the way because that is causing It's just too hard. So I would say if you can use a sippy cup that has a silicone straw That is the best. Yeah

Do you have a favorite of that? I really like the Easy Peasy brand of sippy cups because yeah and actually in SLP she designed them as well. Nice okay great. So they're great for oral development. Do you have thoughts on the honey bear? The honey bear you know that's an interesting one. I think that that has a place in therapy. Sure. But I would say I like Like as a gel.

Right. I would say that if you would be very happy with the easy peasy ones and they make different ones. They're so cute. They're like tiny. So you could even start open cup drinking skills at six months or not six months, but cut that out. You can start it whenever they show the signs that they're ready for solids. can be starting with... Let's do that over. Yeah. I was talking over you. So what's...

At what age would you suggest starting with the sippy cup? Yeah, I would say we'll first, you know, introduce the sippy cup. They have ones that are so tiny for like six months and up. Yeah. They're so small. I just pulled it up. It's so cute. It's their tiny little hand and they it's great. And you can even go online and look at training videos that

that they'll show you how to train your baby with them. They have a set that's a developmental cup set for six months and older. And it goes from that open cup. Yep, open cup. And then they have a bigger cup with a lid and a straw. And so it really helps with that oral development and putting the tongue in the right posture and having that lip closure and lip seal around the cup. And yeah.

If your baby wants to even play and explore with it, you know, before six months, that's great. But I would say you can start there. But the ones that are, you know, and if you're like in the car and you don't want something to spill, I would say the sippy cups that have the flip up straw that you push the button and it flips up. Yeah. All kinds of brands with that. That's a good one for travel so that you know, if you don't want to spill.

Because these ones look pretty flexible. Yes. It's not... be like at home-y. At home. Yep. Yep. At home. ⁓ And then I would say practice... Another thing parents can do is practice oral exercises and tongue positioning, you know, at meal times or you can ⁓ do some oral motor exercises if they're a baby and then older kids, you can do practice with...

tongue clicks, moving your tongue up and down, left and right, lip closure while breathing through and smelling something like if you had a flower or if you had something smelly, can, let's practice breathing through our nose. ⁓ know, practicing, maintaining lip closure, and you can also practice like humming is a good one too. And then,

maintain dental medical checkups to make sure airway and facial development is on the right track, especially keep an eye on the mouth breathing as far as the tonsils go. So the tonsils, that our nose actually purifies the air and it moistens the air. And so that's why we want children to do that, to have a healthy airway. Sometimes parents might have to use nasal sprays.

to keep it moist and to encourage that. And then with the open mouth breathing, it can cause dry cracked lips. can, you know, dry mouth, change the microbiome. It can also increase the likelihood that cavities would happen too. Okay. So all of those things are going to be on the list. So we're going to have like the tongue tie red flags and then have the red flags that it may be affecting.

airway. ⁓ And then once they know that that is an issue, find a myofunctional speech therapist to start. Find ... And not all myofunctional therapists are the same, so kind of do your research. I'm a QOM, which is a Qualified Oral Facial Myologist. So if you can find someone who is an oral facial myologist and does myofunctional therapy, it's kind of similar.

It's just extra training. Okay. And then having a speech therapist on board, you can actually work on the swallowing ⁓ because some of the dental, you know, the dental hygienist, did I say that right? Dental hygienist, yeah. Okay. Say it again. Some of the, some of the myofunctional therapy that maybe you would find at a dental office, ⁓ they can't address the swallowing.

disorder, they can't address the oral phase of the swallow. And so if you want to find an SLP that does myofunctal therapy to address the swallow. So if you have a child, an adult, a teen, a ⁓ child that has a tongue thrust or anterior swelling pattern, then it's really important to find someone who is an SLP too, so that we can correct that pattern of

the swallowing pattern because, you know, chronic ⁓ anterior swallowing patterns can actually ⁓ cause issues with the dental bite and expression. But what they actually found was what causes an overbite or the teeth to flare. It's actually the low resting tongue posture and it's

the resting tongue posture over a long period of time. So it's duration and time of that tongue being down that does cause a lot of issues with a bite. And you do want to address that as early as possible. So that pattern will ⁓ help with airway development and facial development. Okay.

Well, thank you so much. Before we wrap up, do you have any last piece of advice or encouragement that you want to share with people who may be navigating this? Yes, I would say trust your instincts because parents notice subtle signs before healthcare providers do. I would say, you know, keep a notebook. Keep a notebook of different symptoms or maybe print out these checklists and then highlight them.

so that when you talk to your dentist, pediatric dentist or pediatrician, you can talk about this and see if you can find somebody who specializes with myoflential therapy or if it's a baby oral motor therapy. And then I would say early attention to tongue ties, airway development and oral posture can have lifelong benefits, not just for feeding and speech, but for sleep, growth, behavior, learning.

and overall health. So even small steps like focusing on nasal breathing and consulting with a specialist can make a huge difference in the long run. And if you think about over the long run, you really don't need a ton of visits to address these concerns in comparison to what you're preventing your childhood. Life long struggles. I would say too with adults, like

it's never too late. So even as an adult, you can change the pattern of your swallow. You can change the pattern of your tongue and how it functions. so, malfunctional therapy is for kids and adults and the oral motor is for babies. it's never too late, I would say. It's never too early, never too late. Well, when my son got the Palo Expander and he had to do a myobrace and kind of training his tongue,

I had no idea your tongue had to be or should be postured up. And it took me about a year or two for me to like, where's my tongue? Okay. Now it's pretty much every time I think about it, it's there, but it was really hard because my tongue had never done that before. And it was like, it got so tired all time. Your neck muscles. ⁓ my neck, my back and all kinds of things. So yeah. If you don't know any better.

It's hard to change, once you know better, you can get some help. I do feel like too, if you can avoid airway issues early on and prevent childhood apnea or adult apnea, that would be great because that can affect your heart health. can affect so many areas of your health. And if you can prevent those issues. I mean, even mood.

Totally and trams and all the things with kids that they're just not sleeping. Well, they're not sleeping either so good either I mean, I didn't give a sleep last night. I'm like I'm dragging and if that was your life every day like right you'll really Tantrum II right and so I feel like before just jumping to

this diagnosis, this diagnosis or this or this. if you're, you know, just settling for this conventional approach to medicine, just look at the deeper root cause. Look to say, okay, well, why? Why are these, you know, happening? Yeah. Why is my kid gagging when they start solids? Like the palate sensitivity is...

is pretty intense for babies. Exactly. they've never had that tongue up there to desensitize. Exactly. I always like to say that the tongue really does normalize the gag reflex because it's supposed to recede. And when it doesn't, that's the culprit. It's usually the tongue. doesn't eat anything more mushy than a packet, that could be a problem. Yes. Or if they chew the meat and can't swallow it, they spit it out. That's another...

sign. it's just all of those things. And then, you know, looking at reflux, right? Another thing or digestion. Right. They have a gas and so many puking and, you know, all kinds of stuff can show. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, looking at the deeper root cause can avoid a lot of the reflux.

medication or ADHD medication, possibly. I'm not saying in every case, of course. It's needed in some situations. But I will say, why not explore other reasons and root causes of why? There's other things you can do. So don't lose hope is what I would say. Yeah. And that this is a journey. It's not going to be one therapy session and then you're done and good to go. I mean, it's ongoing and it's so worth it. Totally.

It's worth every bit. And I do think that, you know, being committed to finding the root cause, it is frustrating because you will take your child to five different providers and they might say, yes, Tung Tai, no, Tung Tai, a little bit, you know. Oh, it's not, know, function is fine or like other people know that's terrible. Yeah. So it's frustrating. And I've been there. I've been that parent that was frustrated. And then I finally discovered

a dentist that did know airway and didn't know how to do this and address this. And it was great because I feel like ⁓ addressing it early on can not only validate parents, it's like, isn't your fault. And this should not be this hard. This should be this hard. Babies are hard, but it should not be this hard. Yes.

And so anyway, yes, so I actually took my little one to Dr. Thomas and health latch and he's all about airway. So after that, my baby was able to open the mouth up more and breathe through the nose. now he's three and he can now swallow. He was not able to do all of the things that

I was hoping that you would do. coordination. So now that's better. And so I feel like the awareness is getting out there and there's a lot of amazing providers working in this area. It's just knowing the resources. Yeah. And it's not just the cut and you're done. Right. You know, right. I think the important part is that there's so much more to it. Yeah. Getting some.

there be before and then if you do need the restriction taking care at release then then afterwards following up and helping those muscles. Yeah. Train the way that they're supposed to work and function. That is so important. So important. You have to retrain that tongue and you have to build that strength and coordination back and then you have to also address are there any compensatory strategies of the jaw or the cheeks or the lips? Because they try, right? Like those babies are smart. They're going to do what they need to do to survive and then having to like

help them learn, you don't have to do that anymore. There's a better way, but also get strong enough. Cause a lot of times you'll see, ⁓ they'll nurse and they're fine and whatever. But then as the end of the day, they'll just start getting really fatigued in their jaw start shaking. it's like, ⁓ it's so sad. within a couple of weeks, sometimes with those trainings and exercises, ⁓ they're getting better and better every day. Yes, definitely they're learning.

And yeah, babies learn so fast. I mean, kids do too. Adults, we do, but it just takes a little extra. It's a little harder. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you so much for being here and explaining all this to us. This was really valuable. Yes, of course. My pleasure. And if anybody has any questions, feel free to, you know, text me, call me, email me, reach out to me. You can go to my website. can, you know.

They can direct questions to you too. Yeah. Y'all have all your contact information in the show notes. If you think you need some help, definitely reach out to Brittany. And if you're not in the area, we can put that, link that we did last time to find a therapist near you. And then what do you have going on? So you have a couple different things that you're doing. Yes. And another thing I do,

Virtual therapy, and so if you're in Washington or California, I can do virtual therapy. Which is great, and I can coach parents, and ⁓ my functional therapy, can pull up the program on my therapy platform that I use. We can do it. So access, so that's another thing, because there's not a lot of therapists sometimes to choose from in certain areas. Then you can just... ⁓

contact me and we can set up something virtual. But actually I'm going to be going to Japan. Yay. I'm so excited. Hopefully more willing. We are going to be going with my whole family and my two sons and we're going to experience the culture and we're learning Japanese. But we are also, I'm going to actually tour the postpartum clinic over there that has a lot of supplies.

Deb (52:28)
Just say why you're over there. Okay. Like you're going to visit some postpartum retreats. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So while I'm in Japan, we plan on visiting some postpartum retreats and I want to see how they handle postpartum. ⁓ And I want to see how they do the baby massage and the baby exercises. I want to see what they do with body work there in Japan. Yeah. And so I'm going to...

learn those skills over there. And then I also, while I'm over there, I'm going to be doing my coursework to do my CLC so I can be a lactation counselor. And I can already work on feeding now as a speech therapist. But you'll just have so much more knowledge. I'll just have more knowledge. And then I'll also be able to help with a little bit more with the dyad of breastfeeding with mom and baby. Whereas right now I am

focusing on the oral phase of the swallow with baby and same I can work on the the latch and the swallowing part with baby and Feeding and breastfeeding, but I think that will be a really cool extra Option for parents to have and to work on so so until then till then where are you gonna be? With your office work, so like if people need to share yes, so I my office in person is now in

I have two locations in Tacoma for now, and then we will see from there. So you can just go through my website and we can book it based off of where I'm at on that day. Perfect. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you for having me. Yes. This is so so much for coming. And if you guys have any questions, just reach out. And if there's anything I can't, and if you direct it to me and I can't answer, I'm just going to forward it on to Brittany so she can be the expert here and help you out. Thank you so much. All right. Have a good day.

Bye!